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An interview with Zeljko Kerlata of Cosmic Sounds London...
23.11.2001
A openended question hangs over the issue of how to promote new sounds from Eastern and Central European areas. Typically considered "specialty music" or "world music," the sounds are ridiculously misplaced in the vernacular of the mass population of journalists, and in the habits of radio djs and record shop buyers. A rare few exceptional projects are able to cut through mangled cultural-economic barriers to make large impressions on significant numbers of people. Often these projects are taken on by passionate enthusiasts who leave for capitol cities such as London or New York, seeking the means to access more and to do more than they would be able to from their home country. A rare individual who is making strong headway in gaining worldwide recognition to the outstanding ranks of Yugoslav jazz and new music is Zeljko Kerlata, an architect and musician originally from Belgrade but now living in London.
Kerleta has been a devout of jazz, blues, soul, and funk since his teenage years in the '70's. When he moved to London in 1988, his world opened up to Brazilian, Latin, Dance music, Japanese fusion, and European jazz. Working as an architect for the BBC, Kerleta stumbled into multimedia success when he added musical tracks to his architectural 3D animations. DJs Gilles Peterson and Patrick Forge at the BBC came upon these tracks and brought them on the air at BBC. Soon, these tracks were picked up by the Timewarp label, and licensed rigorously around the world particularly in Japan and Switzerland. He has released records on his own label Cosmic Sounds, and also has done excellent remixes for the Crippled Dick Hot Wax "Iron Curtain Revisited" edition.
Cosmic Sounds is a label producing sounds in the category that could be loosely described as avant-jazz, jazz-electronica, or global jazz. Highly revered by magazines such as The Wire, Straight No Chaser, and by BBC Radio, Cosmic Sounds has gained a fine reputation not only in the United Kingdom, but also internationally. Considering Zeljko's non-compromising vision and the staunch obstacles facing independent labels of any genre these days, any successes in the Cosmic Sounds mission deserve much appreciation and admiration. Zeljko speaks here about the state of jazz music in Belgrade and London, and of course about Cosmic Sounds....
T: Where the heck are you from, and when did you move to London?
LK: I guess that you can tell from my releases that I am from Belgrade (Yugoslavia) and I moved to London in summer 1988.
T: How do you like London? How do you like the music scene there?
London is an amazing city. It is so difficult not to like it although life here is extremely stressful. Music scene is the reason why I am still here. It is so rich and anyone can find their own scene and that is excellent for fans. And that's good. But it is tough for musicians. Competition is strong, which is also good but the bad thing about it is: there is so much music, and awful lot of excellent music never reaches audience and just being lost in a hyper production. It is not that much the quality that will bring you to the audience it's the machinery behind it. That machinery is kind of expensive and only big labels can afford it. Because it's expensive it's worth starting it only for commercial stuff and very few non-commercial projects are getting that kind of support. So, mostly, high quality non-commercial music is supported by small independent labels. Very few of them are making living out of it and that is bad. Big labels are trying to please audience rather then educate them. That's why I just love the logo of Belgradeyard Sound System (group of DJs and promoters from Belgrade) which say: "DON'T GIVE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT, GIVE THEM WHAT THEY NEED".
Also what I don't like about London is trends. They are so strong and it is difficult to break them. Masses just follows them and a lot of musicians in order to survive just join them. Original approaches are very risky. Very often, some not very good tracks that are just trying to follow the trend (even not very successfully) are doing much better then some excellent Śnew approach' tracks.
It's not just the labels that are trying to please the audience. It's radio stations as well. It's hard to hear some good quality music on London's radio stations on daytime programs. Very few enthusiasts that are still playing some good stuff are pushed into some odd after midnight slots being treated as a freaks. Good example is my currently favourite show on BBC London Live called "Now's The Time" by Kevin Le Gendre that is on Tuesday midnight 2am. So inspirational. I spent one month in Belgrade last September and (surprise or not?) they have much more and much better radio stations than in London and people found difficult to believe it. Not mentioning TV. There are several regular jazz programs a week on Belgrade's TVs and there is none in UK. No wonder it is difficult to sell jazz record when people don't have a chance to get familiar with it. It is still for enthusiasts who explore it on their own in clubs and record shops. And this is where London is strong. Big number of clubs, live gigs and record shops.
T: When did Cosmic Sounds begin, and what caused you to start the label?
Cosmic Sounds was the name of the radio program that I was running between 1996-98. I was running it from London but it was broadcast in Belgrade once a week. That was just a hobby because I am an architect and was working full time for the BBC Architectural Department. As an architect I was doing 3D animations as a presentations for my projects. I found them pretty dull being played without sound so one day I just decided to do a background music using recently discovered computer tools for it. That's how I did my ŚRunning Fast' track. Timewarp heard it and licensed it for their compilation Warp Factor 2 in April 1999. Gilles Peterson picked it up, playlisted it in Straight No Chaser, also Ross Allen and many others. Of course that gave me a boost and I did the whole album ŚSpace Runner'. In the meantime I met one of the best trumpeters Dusko Gojkovic who generously gave me all his masters to look after them. Also I knew that some of my friends in Belgrade were doing their own stuff. As a collector I already made a bunch of compilations on CD-Rs (for my personal use) from my record collection, dedicated to each of Eastern European countries that I made because I always had a feeling that they were heavily neglected on collectors market and jazz scene in general and was hoping someday to release it throu someone. Having all that undiscovered music around me the logical choice was to start a record label and share all that with the public. Name for the label was taken from my ex-radio program. And that was it. First release came out in November 1999 and that was re-issue of Dusko Gojkovic's rare 10" record with Kenny Clarke from 1961. Second release followed in December and that was my own album and so onŠ.
T: Are the musicians on CS mainly from Belgrade living in London? Is there such a strong local group? If yes, how is the audience of other Londoners? supportive or...?
No, I was the only one from Belgrade living in London. Others (Coxless Pair, Menson Benson Sextet, Alexander Sopchek and others from Belgrade's Burning compilation) are based in Belgrade. Dusko Gojkovic is from Munich, Janko Nilovic from Paris, Tone Jansa from Slovenia and Alex Rostostsky from Moscow. New project Arkestra One (in a pipeline) is completely London based. There is another guy from Belgrade living in London that I recently started to work with. His name is Zak and he's got his own studio (Messy Productions) and works in a more commercial waters. He usually does postproduction for Cosmic Sounds releases and this time he did a re-mix for CS first 12" single under the name DA VIBEZ BOYS. He currently works on his second re-mix for CS that should come out in December. That will be Arkestra One's track "Train To Machupichu", second CS 12" single. There will be three mixes (original, Zak's and mine) and will feature Nina Miranda on vocals (from Smoke City). Regarding support, CS have strong but small support all around the world especially in Japan. CS fell into that Ścult' trap. Few followers and critics are absolutely crazy about us and sometime when I read some reviews I get impression that we did it. That's it, we are finally successful. But this is not reflected on sales and when the sale statement arrives I realise how small actually all that is. It can be very depressing and loosing money in any kind of business would be discouraging and make you think Śshould I give it up?' The only thing that keeps me going is the strength of that small group of supporters that gives me impression that I am doing the right thing and that is only a matter of time when more people will discover us and support and when the whole project will become feasible.
T: When did you start playing music, and on what instrument? What do you mostly play now?
When I was 12 I went to musical school learning guitar. I had a blues band in early 70s but didn't do much with it. I played guitar but sometimes, when needed for gigs, I played bass as well. I haven't played anything for a long time and I started creating music again several years ago using just computer, samples and occasionally keyboard that I'm playing with one finger at the time and later rearranging it on computer. I don't consider myself as a musician, rather producer.
T: Did you experience problems as a young person listening to jazz or other kinds of music in Belgrade? And do you think this influenced on how you appreciate music now?
Can't say I had any problems. Maybe only in getting all the records that I wanted. Import in Belgrade started in late 60's and I remember buying my first LPs ("Ten Years After-Un Dead" and "Canned Heat Boogie With..") on Dum-Dum India label in a local bookshop. I was buying regularly NME and Melody Maker that was available in several kiosks. This is where I found everything about latest happenings in the music world and also addresses of mail-order shops. So I started buying records and posters like crazy. I still remember excitement of opening the parcel that just arrived from England and the smell of the brand new record. Of course another source of information was Radio Monte Carlo and some local radio stations that were quite good. There was a lack of jazz info (but it always was and everywhere) but there was an excellent Belgrade Jazz Festival that I attended every year and almost all days and all performances. So I sow there almost anyone that you can mention in jazz. But that was all that I knew about them, very few information. Because of famous non-commercialism we weren't importing this kind of magazines. Just all the USA, GB and German rock pop stuff (NME to Bravo). This is why I started my radio program for Belgrade to share the knowledge and gems from my collection with the audience over there and to give some new kids more info that might inspire them.
T: You mentioned on your discs some musicians who've had huge influences on your music and life, can you say a bit about them...
These are Pharoah Sanders, Leon Thomas and Sahib Shihab that I mentioned and I found difficult to talk about them. This is something that you can just feel. Like when you click with someone. I found myself completely in their music. Every little note they play tells me something and in the language that I always new and was born with but never used it until I heard them. Of course it wasn't only them but they were the main inspirational figures. People often asked me what was my favourite track and for a long time I found that question silly because I always had a couple hundred of favourite tracks. Then I've noticed that by the time some of these tunes although still sounding good (of course, they are classics) kind of lost that first impact on me. There was only one that whenever I play it I start shaking and sweating and have to take my wristwatch off. That is Sahib Shihab's ŚOm Mani Padme Hum' from the fantastic album Companionship. I can for sure say that this song is me. Full of hot sunshine, send and dust mixed with heavy urban neurosis of huge metropolis and middle east sounds and even some soundtrack style themes. East meets west, past meets future. Very spiritual, very sweaty. Rich and perfect. If checking the track play it loud. It's got some madness that comes out at certain volume. Warning: You might start singing and chanting and forget where you are but don't worry the effect wears off few minutes after the track has finished.
T: Can you speak of the jazz following and history in Belgrade? And what are some of the contemporary directions that the scene is going in?
I can't say for sure about Belgrade's jazz scene because I've been in London for more that 13 years but on my occasional trips to Belgrade I can see that it's been changing. There is a strong core that never gives up jazz and there are masses that follow the trends. If the current trend is jazz, like it was in late 90s, then it gets a lot of followers. There was so many jazz clubs around Belgrade at that time with live music or DJs. Recently, I've noticed that very few of them are left and the whole scene has shrank. But I think that it is mostly connected to really bad economic situation in the country. Who's gonna invest in jazz clubs if the people can't afford to visit them? I think that a huge jazz scene is down there and just at the moment staying low and waiting for better times to flourish.
History: for collectors there is the Yugoslavian Jazz Discography on my site. It was not that extensive but had some masterpieces. Almost anyone who means anything in YU jazz went through RTB Big Band (Radio Television Belgrade) or similar bands in Zagreb and Ljubljana. RTB Big Band won 1st prize at 1961 festival in Juan les Pins (France) and gained international reputation. The biggest names like Dusko Gojkovic and Bora Rokovic left country and moved to bigger jazz centres in a search for experience and bigger projects with bigger names. They both went to Germany. Some younger names did the same recently like Boyan Z who moved to Paris. Janko Nilovic is also there but he never lived in Yugoslavia anyway.
Current scene is not strong enough to form some trends that would get followers. There are very few places that you can actually hear live jazz. I guess the current depression in the country doesn't help creativity but there are some signs that better days are coming. The dance music scene is quite hot. There are so many new DJs, musicians and home producers everyone doing their own thing. There is a variety of styles but there is a lack of a postproduction quality but they are getting there. Problem is in money and money doesn't come because labels are not investing in it because of highly organised piracy that has flooded the market. But that is another story (the sad one). This is the most obvious case of PIRACY KILLS THE MUSIC.
T: Do you know the guys in Blank Disc? What do you think of the new music scene in Belgrade in general? Is the nature of the scene influenced by post-war economics or...? If yes, how?
No, I don't know Blank Disc. As I said before, I am not an expert for Belgrade's scene. Whenever I go there I am just looking for some specialist's stuff that might fit into CS program. Of course I see other stuff as well but don't register all the details. I know that almost everyone is doing something. There are so many new kids doing some Electro and dance stuff in their bedrooms but mostly this is under-produced and unoriginal either in ideas or in sound. There are some bands doing it highly professionally in studios with a support of local labels but in my opinion very few are ready for world-wide market. Their sound, arrangements ideas and themes are just to local and if they are touching some styles from the world scene most of the time it just sounds like a pale copy. It's a process of economical recovery for the whole country and that affects everyone. These are changing times for musicians as well and I see more and more of them getting in touch with what is happening in the world. There are so many very talented young musicians and producers down there and I am sure that it is just a matter of time when they gonna reorganise their forces create some better working condition and environment and produce sum big stuff.
T: Did you ever have any problems with police or media controllers in Yugo?
You must be joking. This is a typical stereotype image that West have about "Iron Curtain". To many American movies, I guess. It always makes me laugh. I don't know, it could've been tough in Śeastern block' but Yugoslavia wasn't part of any block and pretty much enjoyed some kind of democracy (until early 90s) that was in my opinion much bigger then anywhere else in the West. I heard some stories that in the 50s system wasn't very supportive for "American Jazz" but that didn't last for a long time. As you can see from my site in 60s state run label RTB started releasing jazz and some really nice one. And not only local jazz there was some excellent imports (licensed). I also heard stories of jazz being treated badly in Poland for political reasons but I am a bit sceptic. Since 50s state run label Muza has released the biggest and the best jazz catalogue in Eastern Europe. Here we are talking thousands and we are talking high quality and on a state run label. I believe that there were some characters chasing ghosts same as they were anywhere else (USA for example) but it was not official policy and jazz was going on. I think that the system wasn't a problem that much as a non-commercialism of it and still is. It is difficult to find sponsors and support for it if it's not a mass market thing. I could always say that shops are not ordering my stuff because I am a Serb but it's not, it's the jazz man, it's just not commercial enough (although there is always some black sheep, you never know).
T: I heard recently that you were hanging with the Keyser and Shuriken guys in London, they're really cool. What other DJs or labels in the international scene- particularly from EEurope- do you work with lots?
Yes, I am in contact with some really cool guys around the world although I met just a few of them. Mostly they are just pen (e-mail) friends. There are not many from Eastern Europe although I would like to get in touch. I am very hapy that I am in a contact and possible future co-operation with very cool Eddie Ramich from Zagreb (Eddie and Dus). Recently I met Tom Wieland from Less Gammas (Austria) who paid me a visit when he was in London. He is excellent guy. Others that I am in touch with and I really like and respect their work are Peter Joppich @ Spinning Wheel Records (Germany), Tom and Svjetlana @ Crippled Dick Hot Wax records (Germany), Rocko @ Right Tempo (Italy), DJ Rococo @ Jazzadelica (San Francisco Bay Area)
T: What would you like to see as the future of Cosmic Sounds and of your own music?
This is the tricky one. How realistic should I go? Let's don't fool ourselves. Although in some circles it gains a lot of respect CS is a small, marginal label run out of passion and doing specialist's stuff difficult to sell and constantly loosing money. For start it would be good enough if CS just survives. In my wilder dreams I would like CS to pursue more jazzy side even if we talk about our dance program and to widen up a list of artists from all around the world. I did started getting promos from San Diego, Mexico, Dominican Republic, London, Italy and Japan but nothing struck me so far. Regarding projects I wish CS could afford to finance some of my ideas. Could you imagine what kind of album we could get with joined forces of my new bands Menson Benson 6, Coxless Pair and RTB Big Band with strings and choruses composed, arranged and conducted by amazing Janko Nilovic and with Nina Miranda on vocals? That's what I'm trying to pull out at the moment. With a little help from couple of people that might even become the reality. Regarding my music I would love to work more with live musicians and less samples as possible. That is also connected with money but not that much if you find the right people, and I did made some progress in that direction but not enough.
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